The Craigslist Experiment 

 
A mild "pic" from a real ad. 
 

Hypothesis:  Craigeslist is a front for gay pornography and illicit gay sex.
 
Craigslist provides free and nearly instantaneous self-publishing for tens of 
millions of user postings each month, subject only to our Terms of Use and 
other posted guidelines.
 
When parties post on Craigslist they agree under code # 7. CONDUCT,          
In its Terms of Use (TOU) not to post, email, or otherwise make available 
Content:
 
b) that is pornographic or depicts a human being engaged in actual 
sexual conduct including but not limited to (i) sexual intercourse, including 
genital-genital,  oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between 
persons of the same or opposite sex, or (ii) bestiality, or (iii) masturbation, 
or (iv) sadistic or masochistic abuse, or (v) lascivious exhibition of the 
genitals or pubic area of any person. 
 
Almost all ads with pictures from men seeking men violate above. 
Most could be classified as pornographic. Some even showed acts of 
unprotected anal sex.  I could not locate any that matched these in
 the other categories.
 
Craigslist, does not monitor all posts, but it does provide its viewers 
an option to “flag” posts which violate its rules. (“By using the flagging 
feature located at the upper right corner of each post, you can take 
action if you feel a posting is inappropriate.”)  When an ad is flag the
 content is removed and the post is labeled “flagged” and the poster 
receives an email explaining that his ad was flagged. That way he has a 
chance to rebuttal if he feels it was flagged erroneously. (1-2% of ads 
removed through flagging are within the terms of use.)
 
Please report any violations of the TOU, by flagging the 
posting(s) for review, or by emailing to: 
 
abuse@craigslist.org
 
As an experiment I used the flag option to request removal of all men 
seeking men ads that violated its terms of use in Columbus, OH and 
other communities. I later rechecked to see if they were indeed flagged 
(posts therefore removed). When I followed up, NONE of these were 
removed.  This was a consistent pattern. 
 
I am now in the process of emailing CL to see why they have failed to 
follow its own terms of use.  I will keep you posted.
 
So why am I going through these extremes:
 
1.  Kids have very easy access to CL, and if it's a porno site then let it be known
     and let parents keep their kids off it.
2.  If it's a porno site then it must be held accountable like those sites.
3.  If CL wants to be of porno status and not follow its own terms, Christians 
     and people of moral value need to be aware and not support it any longer. 
    .
   
 
 

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Hans Gruen
[this is good]

Wish you success. Something about that site has put me off since its start. I have a feeling I would'nt like the people running the show. I've never visited it and you've just provided me with 1 more reason never to visit.

bluesingincat
[this is good]
It never ends with these people. You have to ask, Why would you allow constant violations of the TOS unless you really wanted these kinds of ads? Which leads me to my second question: If you want your site to be a place for gay pornography, why wouldn't you set it up as such? It's real easy to get one going. I agree with your estimation that Craiglist is a front. If they are allowing these ads to to be placed, and they have not removed content that children can easily run across on the web, then there are laws that should be enforced to stop this atrocity.

18 U.S.C. 1465 -- Interstate transportation of obscene matter 18 U.S.C. 1466 -- Wholesale and retail sale of obscene matter which has been transported in interstate commerce (must be engaged in business of selling or transferring obscenity)
Sections 1462 and 1465 cited above also prohibit distribution of obscenity on the Internet.

"Dealing in obscene matter" is also a predicate offense under the Federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) statute. (Title 18, Section 1961-1968).

TO OBTAIN TEXTS OF THESE SECTIONS, GO TO: HTTP://USCODE.HOUSE.GOV

http://www.obscenitycrimes.org/obsclawprimerV1.cfm
(Link to web page with the above info)

This is a link to resources and places to report this crime:

http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/law3a.htm#Report

Thanks for watching out for our children. We need to report this and hold Craiglist to task.
Aielman
1. Kids have very easy access to CL, and if it's a porno site then let it be known and let parents keep their kids off it.
2. If it's a porno site then it must be held accountable like those sites.
3. If CL wants to be of porno status and not follow its own terms,
Christians and people of moral value need to be aware and not support it any longer.
Ok...I can agree that they should follow their own TOS, and failing that, change it to reflect the
actual conditions of the site.However...1, you will never stop kids from having access to adult materials all the time. It can't be
done. What you can do is teach them that is and isn't appropriate and then monitor their usage2...nothing happens to adult sites if they show explicit materials as long as they have a warning.
Even when they don't, not much is going to happen to them.3...if you don't like their site, don't frequent it. It doesn't offend my morals because I expect
men seeking men ads to be explicit. I'm also not a man seeking another man...so therefore I
have no reason to visit that part of the site. As long as there are not explicit pictures in the
toaster ad, I'm not overly concerned. I seem to remember this passage from the bible about
casting the first stone, and another about being judgemental. As I am not without sin, I try to
stay away from rocks. And as I am not God, I do not judge...I leave that to him.
Humbled Infidel
The picture above told me I was going to be turned off by Craigslist. I won't go there but I do think if children can access it easily and if there are laws in place, then these laws need to be enforced - and we the people need to make sure these laws are enforced.
Aielman

TOS isnt' a law. It's a self imposed rule. And the reason Craigslist is so lax in enforcing thier tos is that Craigslist operates with a staff of 24 people total to monitor craigslist sites for 450 cities in 50 countries world-wide. The site has 9 billion hits a month and is the 9th most busy site in the US.

So needless to say, 24 people aren't going to be able to police all those ads...about 2 million of them at any given time.

After doing a bit of looking, I found that in 2002, a adult content warning was put on the "men seeking men", "casual encounters", "erotic services", and "rants and raves" boards to warn those who clicked on these sections that they needed to be over the age of 18.

So legally, they're covered.

Jim Phelan

Aielman,

I appreciate your comments, but to me it seems you are making excuses for the carelessness of CL. For example, you say they only have 24 staff...[but] 9 bil. hits a month. Wow, 24 staff for an operation of a website marketed to sell used goods, that's pretty big! And if they have big hits (business), they have big responsibility. If they are going to be a “community service” that’s one thing, but to front porn, no that’s not going to work, pal. As I see it, they have a responsibility to not be schizophrenic. If they want to sell goods, that’s one thing, but to allow pornographic photos and outright solicitation for prostitution, sex-drug use, "daddy-son" sex calls, calls for unprotected sex, and the like, they have a public health matter on their hands and buddy those ARE legal issues.

Your philosophy of turning from evil and not confronting it is not totally the truth in God’s design. We are His watchmen and we are to protect his sheep. NO, maybe YOU are not looking at CL, because perhaps you are not vulnerable, but our children and the mentally instable are. We are called to care for them, yes to teach them, but to go the extra mile and make sure their paths are safe.

Jim Phelan

You said: "If you want your site to be a place for gay pornography, why wouldn't you set it up as such?"

I say: Excellent point. Why front as selling ironing boards, skate boards and oh, by the way how about a little...........

They are pretty manipulative. Not surprising the company is HQ'd in San Francisco! I bet they have good laughs at Pastor so and so who buys a new bike while he unknowingly supports a gay agenda!

If they are pornographers, then why not come out of the closet, let the public know, and let us safe guard our children.

Jim Phelan
Thanks for the providing the title codes and references...much appreciated.
ihavewebfeet

I am a firm believer in parents controlling what their children see on the internet. Unfortunately, not all parents have The Gift of the Eagle Eye when it comes to their children’s online activity.

So, Craig’s List is covered. How nice for them. I'm sure we all sleep better at night knowing their collective ass is shielded from legal action.

Are we witnessing yet another example of doing the bare minimum to get by? I’m not sure if this would be in the “the all mighty dollar” category, lack of concern for the issue, or out of laziness.

I understand Craig’s list is horribly understaffed; however, it would not be hard to ensure children with access to their site aren’t exposed to content meant for the friskiest (freakiest?) folks in our society.

It’s quite simple, really

The most effective solution for all involved would just be to remove all "Person seeking Person" ads from Craig's List. There are, by far, enough sites on the internet that provide 'hook-up' listings. Craig's List has not cornered any market here. The world of on-line ‘dating’ will not come to a screeching halt without the listing the end up on their site. This would remove the smut listings AND lighten the workload for the CL staff. A happy win-win for all involved.

You never know.

A few people might actually get out of the house and meet someone the good old-fashioned way and strike up a conversation before they…well…you know.
Jim Phelan

The most effective solution for all involved would just be to remove all "Person seeking Person" ads from Craig's List.

Absolutely!!! I will ask them! Let's see what they say!

I mean, we have enough dating (hook up) sites out there.....So, that eliminates the excuse that they NEED to provide this community resource.

bluesingincat
I agree with you Aielman, as far as responsibility starting with the parents, but I would be hard pressed to find a reasonable excuse for Craiglist's continuing to mix adult sexual content with the sale of items found in any WalMart or JC Penney, and then laying the responsibility for the sorting it out with parents. Craiglist may think they are covering their backside by printing a disclaimer/warning to certain areas of their site, but there is a stipulation in law that governs what is called a "reasonable expectation of safety" If Craiglist is known historically as a classified ad publication, and their self promoting ads give no indication of the surety (not probability) of adult content, then we could argue the "reasonable expectation" law. Basically it's like having 3 or 4 rooms at WalMart filled with pornography and sex toys, leaving those doors open, but posting a sign by each room warning shoppers that you must be 18 to enter. There is a "reasonable expectation" that WalMart shoppers have, and that is they do not have to be extra vigilant to protect their children from seeing pornography when shopping at WalMart. I think it's a fair law. Craiglist should remove any links to adult content from their classified web site. Period. Good parents monitor their children's activity on the web. Good parent's sometimes have to work 2 jobs just to feed those kids. Parents can't be everywhere at all times, as much as they would like to be. It is the duty of businesses like Craiglist to accommodate to the well being of our children, not the other way around. Whoever had the bright idea of allowing links to adult ads with the generic classified sections just didn't care about that. That is called neglect.
ihavewebfeet
If Craig's list felt they MUST act as a hook-up service, then start a completely separate site.

Call it Craig's Sexy List of Sex Hungry People and Sex Stuff or something like that.

Set it up so that people who want to interact with the Sex Hungry People or buy Sex Stuff from the fine people at Craig's List will have to go through the age verification system (not that those are fool proof...).


Aielman

It’s quite simple, really

Yes...it is. It's a website. Not a babysitting service. You are responsible for what your child views...not some website. It's your responsibility to ensure they aren't viewing material they shouldn't be seeing.

The website makes it clear that there is adult material on the website. You are aware. Therefore it's your responsibility to ensure that your child does not visit that portion of the site. And failing that, it's your responsibility to teach your child that they have no business on websites like that.

Good parent's sometimes have to work 2 jobs just to feed those kids.

They're not good parents if they allow unfiltered access to websites with adult material...no matter how many jobs they have. Craigslist is incredibly easy to block. Every major content filter software is capable of blocking it, as is the built in content advisor in every copy of Internet Explorer from 5.0 to the present.

If you have a child, and you have interent access in your home that is available when you are not there, then it's your responsibility to insure that that access filtered. And it's also your responsibility to ensure that they know to keep out of any site that lists itself as having adult content.

Craiglist may think they are covering their backside by printing a disclaimer/warning to certain areas of their site, but there is a stipulation in law that governs what is called a "reasonable expectation of safety"


There is no reasonable expectation of safety on the internet. It's open, public, conent, and absolutely should remain so.

Craiglist is known historically as a classified ad publication, and their self promoting ads give no indication of the surety (not probability) of adult content, then we could argue the "reasonable expectation" law.

Craigslist is also, historically, known as a publication with personal ads. The very first Craigslist was created for the San Francisco bay area. It has, from its inception, had racy to downright obscene personal ads, with a large portion of them being for homosexual hookups. If you came to the party late and weren't aware of this, it's not the fault of the website...especially after they've labeled that portion of the sight as being adult material.

Jim Phelan

these so-called "personal ads" do give disclaimers:

I am at least 18 years old.

I understand "men seeking men" may include adult content.

I agree to flag as "prohibited" anything illegal or which otherwise violates the craigslist terms of use.

However, under the stated terms of use, what's is there is violated and when flagged, they do nothing about it, this is the premis of the study at hand. They publish the terms of use that specifically to say no content:

that is pornographic or depicts a human being engaged in actual

sexual conduct including but not limited to (i) sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or (ii) bestiality, or (iii) masturbation, or (iv) sadistic or masochistic abuse, or (v) lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person.Yet, they have a mechanism to flag anyone who violates this and yetdoes not enforce it. WHAT GIVES??????? You say its a staffing issue. i agree with ihavewebfeet, The most effective solution for all involved would just be to remove all "Person seeking Person" ads from Craig's List. If Craig's list felt they MUST act as a hook-up service, then start a completely separate site.
ihavewebfeet
True. True.

Oooohhh...PUPPIES (sorry...majorly cute dog commercial distraction).

I must admit that I'm torn apart at the various sides of this issue. "Parents: be a parent and parent your children" vs. "Why is it necessary for there to be smut-like material everywhere you turn? Just Stop".

There's also the issue of the posters of these ads. Yeah, yeah. I know. Consenting adults...privacy of your own bedroom and all that. I also know that most of the folks in these ads aren't creepy pervs. Healthy sexual appetite is a good thing, yet when you read some of these ads, you KNOW some of these people are engaging in unhealthy, self-destructive behavior. It's kind of like enabling these folks, I guess. Then there's the naive crowd that get sucked into it, not believing that they could be in danger from someone who's ad they answer. Personal responsibility? Yeah, there's that, too.

The more I think about this, the more sides it seems to have, and they're not equal sides, either.

I guess it would just be nice to see more sites realizing a few less sex ads out there won't hurt anything.


Uh-oh. I sound like my mother did when I was my son's age.

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